I waited for the snow to stop and the sun has already baked it off the sidewalk in most places.
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My 2 cents worth on the idea of a “new” edition of QS: I’m not in favor of tinkering around with a finished work that has mostly been a resounding success. You can’t please everyone all the time. You wrote the story you wanted to write, and it’s a good one. I very much like the way Ishmael’s stories reflect his “growing-up”, changing and maturing, coping and adapting, as we all do. The man in Owner’s Share is not the callow young fellow in QS, and vice versa.
I agree.
Please don’t change a thing about Quarter Share. I like all the Share books, but I don’t want Quarter Share to be Owner’s Share.
I *like* the simpler narrative of QS. It is a pleasing, comforting story.
It’s fine to think “what would I do differently if I were to rewrite QS today?” as a thought experiment if it helps you gain insights that improve a future work … but … please, please don’t be George Lucas!
I’d also have a hard time with believing in his (and others’) belief in “Trust Lois” if his experience were not a positive, nurturing one.
Nate;
Changes/Improvements to “Quarter Share” and/or “Half Share”? That is an interesting challenge. By my own count I have listened to those two stories at least thirty times through and right off the top of my head I would voice an opinion pretty much in line with Joyce T’s. I will admit that these first two books are on the ‘quiet’ side as regards plot, being more about personal development and relationship building and it is only when we hit “Full Share” that we first encounter a large enough event (the solar storm and the subsequent failures in environmental) to propel both plot and characters in any exceptional way. Is this a bad thing? Not to me, but then, I LIKE the entire series and it was exactly this quiet, easy-going feel of the books that spoke to me… the way that I could identify with Ish and his struggle to pull himself together and make a life. Those qualities endeared the series to me and made me a fan. At the same time, I will admit that when introducing other people to your podcasts I have warned them ahead of time that the series starts out slowly and gently and that they might find themselves a bit perplexed, waiting for something ‘big’ to happen. So you might have a point there, Nate. I will ruminate on this for a few days.
While unlike Ignatz I have only read Quarter Share once and listen to all of them 4 times. I have to say I like them very much as is, to the point where I found QS on Amazon and after reading it, I then did an internet search to find you and the rest of the books on podiobooks. I can understand that a rewrite may be able to make them a little more commerically popular to a net larger number of people and that would be important if, lets say you were going to release the books in europe. You would need new cover art (as most books in europe have different cover art) and if that did in fact lead to a sales success then a new release in the US would make more sence to me. As for what to put in I can’t help I like them as is. I am so much help it scares me.
Hmm
This idea scares the crap out of me, but it’s exciting, too. To be honest it makes me what to start do another listen and reread -right now-. I think there are definitely changes to the current version that could be made to make it a better book. Most of them would be very small, though. I love Quarter Share would wouldn’t want to change anything drastically, but I’m really curious to see where this idea could go.
A lot of things are running through my mind and I definitely want to listen/read again before I feel comfortable offering any true ideas, but here are some nebulous ones.
-Make Ishmael have a harder time getting onto the Lois in the first place. Maybe O’Roarke (sp?) doesn’t like him enough to tell him about the possible QS berth until he visits 2-3 times. Maybe he starts feeling desperate enough that he visits the Marine office and has a scene where he talks to a recruiter. That could be a nice way to flesh out that part of Solar Clipper universe and make it seem like Ishmael is in as hard of a spot as he actually was he was under threat of deportation.
-Everyone is always nice to Ish immediately (other than the Captain and 1st Mate). For Pip and Cookie, etc. that is essential to the story. Maybe have the rest of the crew be more polite and less immediately nice and accepting at first. Having some relations develop a little slower could make Ishmael seem less perfect.
-When Pip gets beat up it’s one of the first hints we get that not everything is perfect in society (other than the corporate worlds suck). Despite this, Ishmael never talks about anything seedy on the orbitals or ever mentions be wary of walking around. I would have thought that having your friend beaten and robbed on the first orbital in a long sequence of orbitals you’re going to visit over the next two years would make you a little worried.
-If you really want to add in someone that overtly doesn’t like Ishmael (for whatever reason), I think that person will probably have to end up leaving the Lois. Ishmael shouldn’t solve the problem and the person should come to like Ishmael or else people will just see it as another example of his perfectness. Now whether the person should go by their own will or be put off by the officers is 50/50 for me.
That’s enough for now, but I’m sure once I get into the story again I’ll have some better ones. Might be a few days, maybe I’ll email you. Need to go get some food and then have to attend a d&d session…
I understand the inclination to play in your own sand box. However doing too much could potentially alienate some of your current fans in a manner akin to what the “George Lucas Syndrome” has done to many a Star Wars fan.
I happen to love Quarter Share for it’s lack of outright conflict and while I can understand the points some people make regarding this – I don’t happen to agree with them.
But thinking the absence of conflict means the non-existence of any conflict is naive in the extreme.
What I suggest is for you to develop two or more antagonist’s that had previously untold conflicts with Ishmael – most likely spacers who resented an upstart land rat telling them how to do things better or more efficiently.
Write these stories as short stories that could later be included in a revised “anniversary” edition of the original stories. These antagonists could then be used in the next Ishmael Wang trilogy. The short stories could be released prior to the books in the new trilogy.
You could even do a short story about Pip’s early days on the Lois (before Ishmael) when he unknowingly made an enemy of one of the crew who later sets his sights on Ishmael for no reason other than he became friends with Pip (besides being a land rat, of course).
This will allow you to further develop the characters of both Ishmael and Pip and could showcase several inventive solutions to the confrontations on the part of Ishmael. Writing the short stories could also help you develop story and plot ideas for the next Ishmael series.
The revised editions could be released only in e-book format or in both e-book and printed formats (with the potential to be a limited edition hard cover or trade paperback). As long as the “revisions” are clearly noted anyone likely to be upset would have fair warning to avoid the new edition.
Oh GODDESS NO!!!!!
I very much prefer the first three books to the latter three. As far as padding, I would try to give more feel of the depths of space, and perhaps some of the tech that passes beneath notice. *POSSIBLY* a bit more at the beginning – perhaps some of the Spacers are not really familiar with planetary living, and Ishmael is the first approachable person for him to give more background to what living on a planet is *really* like.
I’d really like to see more trader type conflict, and less of the more direct physical and criminal conflict – I *LOVED* the scenes in Captain’s Share and Owner’s Share where he works to line up cargos. For the second and third books, I really think there could be more done with the private trading and the Co-op.
In sooth, I think the first three books really don’t need a new edition (other than the minor points people have spotted here & there).
Agreed. While I love the whole series, I love the first few books the best.
If Quarter Share is wrong … I don’t want to be right.
I’m with Joyce and Ignatz on this one. I like the first three books the way they are. Part of the charm for me was the low-key, daily life approach. While a few people said nothing ever happens, I think the whole fish-out-of-water aspect was the theme (mostly) and it worked, and as it progressed I was wondering how he would deal with what came next and what would come next. I also liked the lack of emotionally manipulative twists at the end. I think that style of writing has been *way* overdone.
One of the things I liked about the character is that he didn’t get caught up in the petty insults and hurts that we all experience. There wasn’t the raging and brooding that seems more “normal.” Of course, later in the series we see how this ability to compartmentalize comes back to bite him in the rear. But for now, and the most part, it’s a very functional perspective that allows him to rise early and fast, but he also hits a ceiling because of it. (And how he grows beyond this opens up so many interesting possiblities for books 7 and on.) So, if someone expected “attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion”, I can see where they’d be disappointed, but, tough. It wasn’t that kind of book.
If you asked about the last three books I might have some ideas!
Actually, on Double Share, it seemed kind of sudden to encounter such a vicious person in charge of a ship. “How could that happen?” Perhaps a bit more explaination that there were some really bad ships out there.
On Owner’s Share, the nature of the attack seemed to come out of nowhere. Had Herring decided that the only way to stop her was by killing her and killing or maiming everyone around her? It seemed a dramatic shift in strategy. Why that instead of just poisoning the pancake batter? If it was supposed to be a limited assualt that went out of control, then it happening because the chief lost it (ie it was the chief who stabbed Ishmael), would seem more plausible. And perhaps something about how they used knives because knifings happened a lot, but guns would attract large-scale law enforcement attention?
It didn’t seem likely that they would keep secret the attachment to will that froze her assets, after they had already done it.
The only other thing that stood out was the voice used when referring to shifu, “I’d go see her whenever…” led me to believe that she’d already passed away. (as opposed to “I’ll go see her whenever…)
Anyway, just some comments from the peanut gallery!
“I also liked the lack of emotionally manipulative twists at the end. I think that style of writing has been *way* overdone.”
This is not a criticism of Owner’s Share, but I agree! One of the *awesome* things about the series and most especially the first 3 books is that they are wonderful stories that engaged me more than almost any other even though they are *not* filled with conflict.
Everyone tells you how your book must fit into the same mold as every other book. I, for one, think the universe is richer for your books NOT fitting into the same mold as everything else. I think it would be a *terrible* pity to try and fit them better into that mold.
“This is not a critism of Owner’s Share”
Absolutely not! One gut-wrenching twist out of six books…, yeah, okay, I can give you that!
What I don’t like is when every chapter is a cliff hanger, and then the next chapter is someone else’s story, and we don’t get back to the first plot line until one or three chapters later. And then every book ends in a cliff hanger. I can’t even begin to list all of the SF books that are written that way these days.
Obviously there is a lot that could go wrong if you make changes and it could easily go the wrong way. I think the key would be to make small changes that, as a whole, could make the impact you’re looking for. If this whole idea goes beyond hypothetical, I’d still can it if it seems like it would turn off your fans after some initial trial changes.
I am not in favor of new editions to the books. How about a new book with another character who is different than Ish and has different experiences. Maybe he/she runs across Ish along the way and we get his take on that experience. We get his/her take on other things. Or maybe not a new character, but one of the characters out of QS. You have mentioned Pip previously. Pip’s experience before QS and during QS/HS and so on. I would find that interesting. Is he in communication with his family during this time? What are they doing?
There are others as well who have stories before, during and after. There is also the overall story of what is going on in the company with a touch of history of how it got that way. If you want to fill in stuff that is missing, I think new books/shorts would be the way. The first books are wonderful and are why people are fans. If you see where you can improve, do it in new work.
If you really wanted to do something showing a bit more “real” picture of life aboard the Lois, I’d vote for Anita’s idea of showing a different perspective from a new character. Perhaps even a mention of how Ishmael seems to just shrug off emnity or snarky remarks. (I actually know someone like this. It’s kind of amazing, because on the one had it almost seems like denial, but on the other, it does seem fairly functional, in that the harsh things others say don’t bog her down. )
What a LOT of interesting ideas.
Remember this is all hypothetical. Mostly a “thought experiment” in what amounts to an after-the-fact story edit.
Thanks for all the insights. Feel free to keep them coming.
I would cut out or change the scene in full share where Ish bolsters the depressed captain – too much Ish ego. Maybe more about his Mother who kind of seems a bit dysfunctional, why so isolated and dependent on Ish? Maybe flesh out a few other characters a bit? Just a few thoughts…although I like the books.
To me the first three Share books have always seemed to be one book. It covers the day to day apprenticeship of a young man who because of circumstances has decided to become a spacer. We follow his wild eyed wonder and growth as a person experiencing everything that to him is new and strange. And we as readers get to live and experience these things with him. We don’t need great conflict and catastrophic events? Perhaps Ishmael in his naivite doesn’t see them. In Quarter Share he works in the kitchen, he is not on the bridge, he doesn’t know the true workings of the ship, he is not privy to the Captains struggles, he only sees things through the rose colored glasses of an inexperienced crew member who wasn’t even raised in that life style.
My only fault with the original series is the abrupt change near the end of Full Share when we jump almost a full year changing from the day to day storytelling to a summing up conclusion of Ishmaels life on the Lois McKendrick.
The rest of the Share novels are complete among themselves. Each are definitely separate novels and explore Ishmael’s experiences within a contained portion of his life. His experiences as a Mate, a Captain, and an Owner. Heading back to fix the early novels should not be an option. They aren’t really broken. There are a few stories that haven’t been told, and the novels didn’t always go in the directions that I thought, but they are great stories in amongst themselves.
I always thought that once Ishmael experienced the family ship of Pip’s parents that that was the direction that he would take in life ,when he achieved Ownership, and perhaps he will one day. I wanted more about that lifestyle and perhaps he will follow it in future books or perhaps that is Pip’s life and not Ishmael’s. It is time to look forward to the new tales of the Solar Clipper. It is time for Ishmael to go in search of his “white whale?” and his story will not end until he gives away his last whelkie, perhaps to his daughter, on his death bed.
You know, until you mentioned the concept of an “unreliable narrator” on #TOMMW, it never crossed my mind from listening to the story. Perhaps that aspect wasn’t very clear in the narrative, or you didn’t draw much attention to it.
As far as “punching up” the story in revision, it occurred to me that there wasn’t much hazing on the ship. It would seem that on any ship (naval, merchant, spacer, etc.) all the crew are dependent on each other to rise to the challenge in times of crisis, and that this trust in your fellow shipmates must be earned. Hazing is one way this is done.
Then again, why revise the story at all? You could work things like this into a short story or novella that overlaps quarter share.
I was desperately looking for a book when I stumbled onto your recordings. Your series was more than I could ask for, far more than I could have expected. My experience with Ishmael you can’t change (It’s locked in my head). Sure, change it if you must, add a little more “reality” drama. You will attract a younger “reality” starved audience for sure. Tweak, tinker and adjust, I can understand, every perfectionist does it. Like every painting in a gallery, none are perfect, none are appreciated by everyone. When the artist puts down his paint brush he does not need to say he is done, he takes a deep breath and walks away, mentally and physically.
On a brighter note…. I would like to know pips perspective OR one of the officers perspective on quarter share. Even if it is a short story. It is not rewriting the book is it? Really? You started this universe, I want to see more. Please.